Originally posted by edwin3060:

 

As to your first point, guarding of VIPs, etc, these are national duties, and not tied to the PAP at all. If, for example, another party was to form the government, the Gurkhas would also have to be deployed to guard the PM, and other important ministers, in addition to the President. That was why I said that one of the roles of the Gurkhas is to guard the President and the Government of Singapore, as well as other VIPs, diplomats etc.

Also, among the Special Ops communities, you will find that there are many common areas of training, and the reason for that is both backup and to ensure that all these highly trained people speak the same language-- in some areas of training both SOC and the SOF do the same thing, does that mean that they shouldn't have cross training? How sure are you that just one command will be enough in an emergency situation?

Finally, like I said previously in other threads, while our Gurkhas are under the control of the SPF, the Gurkha detachment here was originally detached from the Gurkha Regiment in Britain, and Gurkha selection is still done by the British before the Gurkhas are sent to Singapore for both historical and practical reasons. So your whole contention about the Gurkhas being different are null and void.

Close protection of VIPs falls within the duties of the security command officers whom are Singaporeans. Gurkhas just make up the sentries, u see them guarding other installations as well.

There is a whole lot of difference between the duties of SOC and SOF. Unless you are talking about STAR within the SOC, i do not think the other units that form the main bulk of SOC shares facilities with SOF.

Originally posted by viciouskitty74:

women should serve NS.

then its easier to realise that man are nothing.

ouch.

Originally posted by storywolf:

To judge things, we need facts and figures - i ask for just 6 ! And yet you struggle, in the end give me 4 only. Tavor, SA80 - yes they have better sights. G36 - 1.5x sight also & Vector CR-21 - 1x sight - nothing special - I put them as equal. From 4 of top rifle of standard configuration you mention - i only see 2 of them have better sights only.

The G36 sight is extremely innovative. It comes with a 3x sight for long range engagement as well as a 1x red dot sight for fast short range engagement above the 3x sight. Unfortunately this innovation is not a feature in the export version which has only the 1.5x scope as u had mentioned.

Originally posted by rooki:

 

 If you're trying to insult me by calling me a pansy, you're doing it wrong.

After all, I'm not the one acting all tough and mighty behind the keyboard.

 

No one is acting tough and mighty here u shameless loser. All we did was to prove our point with evidence of past deployments and experiences not by us but by SAF.

You on the other hand had the balls to call our men wusses, spoiled and weak while at the same time questioning the need to defend our piece of land, questioning the worth of our defenders laying down their lives for that cause of defending our land and our sovereignty. Furthermore u proved yourself stupid and retarded by making comments like US soldiers aint weak just because they own guns.

It is an insult for us ex servicemen and most importantly our ladies whom lost their lives at sea by underestimating the value till the extent of belittling that ultimate sacrifice.

Originally posted by rooki:

If every country responds to any 'insult to sovereignty' with force, pretty soon there'll be no humans left. Hey, even American pleas to release Michael Fay are 'insults to sovereignty'!

You wanna make slippery-slope arguments, so can I. The importance of Pedra Branca has been overinflated by the government and the media. How can the loss or gain of such a remote lighthouse be a threat to Singapore's continued survival? Note I said 'survival', not 'dominance' or 'superiority'. The harping on the point that dominance = survival is merely rhetoric, and has caused the increase in tension among SEAsian states.

I was talking about the demostration of force, i wasnt talking about using unnecessary force or just force(war), please get it right. If there is no need for a demostration of force to demostrate our intend on that island as a response to Malaysia's naval intrusion, then we might as well give the island to the Malaysians whom will promptly set up more patrols in the area, followed by unrestricted entry onto our island.

You truely demostrate the lack of knowledge in such field by having no appreciation on the importance of Pedra Branca. Security is survival (if u cannot acknowledge this then u are in no position to make comments on such issues) and Pedra Branca is crucial to our security and therefore our survival. Further more, how can u underestimate the loss of a remote land crop? If losing that small land crop is nothing to Singapore, then losing a finger is nothing to you too.

If u see that there is no point to act accordingly to Malaysia's demand of and naval intrusion around that small piece of land, can i expect no protest and defence from you when i determinely demand a pinky from u with threatening intent?

Ball-less arse like u arent fit to call our soldiers wusses.

Originally posted by rooki:

Ever crossed your mind that those lives would never have been lost in the first place if the government decided not to press the issue?

yah then in war or in period of hostility, in period when someone is insulting your sovereignty, just submit to your enemies to prevent the lost of lives alright? by that method then there is no need to press the issue with armed patrols and the demostration of force.

I hope u are not a Singaporean.

Originally posted by 4Justice:

Sorry. I had my military training 1st before I decided to continue with it in a semi official capacity. Perhaps when our PMC is set up I'll send you a business card.

thank you, i look forward to your business card and also a better discussion of military issues between us, maybe i can learn more from you.

stay safe 4justice.

Originally posted by rooki:

The reality is that almost all SAF NSmen have never pulled the trigger with intent to kill or maim.

Working together successfully in humanitarian efforts doesn't mean working together successfully to kill.

How many of US forces deployed to modern war zone today had kill someone pior to that?

Ur idea about killing someone to prove ones manhood is stupid and narrow. Certainly by ur defination, you are yourself a wuss.

Originally posted by 4Justice:

Now excuse me, my ride for my CQB training is arriving in 30 mins and i need to go pack my gear and guns up.

Do not think that ur participation in airsoft will translate into good military knowledge by our intepretation. So dont borther showing it off here. I myself did my share of CQB in NS so thanks but no thanks.

Good luck for CQB.

Originally posted by rooki:

Your conjecture that NSmen will kill when pushed is just that: speculation. When reality shows a much more meek and submissive way of handling things.

what reality? did we have a war for u to claim that reality?

The reality was that we were deployed when needed, as needed, kill when needed and as needed by which unit when needed, as needed. Do a research on our military history pal.

Originally posted by 16/f/lonely:

I know the answer.

But the fact that she spouts so much despite having little knowledge pisses me a little because unlike her, I see the wreck every now and then and seeing it always saddens me.

sad indeed.

Originally posted by rooki:

 

http://www.heritage.org/research/nationalsecurity/upload/85083_1.gif

I stand corrected on the 'poorer' part, but you cannot deny that rural people are overrepresented in the army.

 

i dont see how ur table demostrate u point about rural folks so on and so forth.

Originally posted by 16/f/lonely:

Have you actually seen the Courageous wreck before?

isnt it obvious she knows little about the topic and u still ask her this kind of question?

Originally posted by 4Justice:

Oh but I have, it's just that your nationalistic ego and pride prevents any of you from seeing it.

4justice, look around, its not onli me that fail to see your understanding of the subject.

Originally posted by 4Justice:

Professional pride. Which seems to now only extend to going on the forums and saying "my armed forces is not teh sux!" rather than going down with your ship.

Ur sense of professional pride is weird. yah most probably it is better for him and his son to perform seppuku also.

Originally posted by rooki:

And yet when those Guardsmen were robbed in M'sia, their first instinct was to simply hand over their money to the robber.

I know generalisation from an incident is inappropriate, but just take a look around Singapore and see if those NSmen fit my example more so than it fits yours of garang commandos.

Wont u do the same if u are in M'sia? Why risk getting stab if u can settle it with money.

In war, it is not about settling with money and thats why we kill and risk getting killed.

Originally posted by rooki:

If you'd bother to research, most US troops are hicks that come from poorer, rural areas where hunting is a pastime and gunfights are common. Almost all Singaporeans, on the other hand, resemble the cosseted pansies in NYC when it comes to physical toughness. But of course those NYC pansies have not undergone the mindwashing effect of NS, so in the end they're still tougher than SG NS guys.

If caucasians freeze under simulated rounds, you can bet that the soft asians from Singapore will do worse.

LOL. i cant believe it. '' most US troops are hicks that come from poorer, rural areas where hunting is a pastime and gunfights are common''.  '' But of course those NYC pansies have not undergone the mindwashing effect of NS, so in the end they're still tougher than SG NS guys.''

eh wuss, show your supporting evidence for your claims if not stop making a joke out of ur pathetic soul.

Originally posted by 4Justice:

 

Fact remains that most naval ship captains WILL rather go down with their ship even if they weren't in charge on the bridge.

what logic is it for the CO of the ship to go down with the ship if adequate life saving support is available?

Originally posted by 4Justice:

 It's very amusing to watch all of you repeatedly assume I have no military experience and am a civilian =)

Not to be sexist, u are as honourable to me as any other forumner here.

We assume your lack in military experience for the fact that u have not demostrated to us ur understand of our armed forces in the context of our region.

Originally posted by rooki:

How many US citizens are spoilt pansies? Remember guns are legal there.

And also you seem to fail to grasp the difference between police officers (more often than not regulars, much more then police NSFs), the SOF (regulars too) and ordinary NS grunts forced to serve

Are u that stupid to think that US citizens are not spoilt pansies (im not saying that they are, neither are we) solely because they own guns?

There is no distinction between regular, NSmen and NSF. All will react accordingly when their lives are threatened.

Originally posted by rooki:

Yeah, just because a few commandos were garang, you generalise that to mean all of the SAF, including the vast unmotivated pansy bunch of NSmen/NSFs

But that unmotivated pansy bunch of NSF were in Aceh for that job right?

Originally posted by rooki:

What makes you think they can kill in the face of enemy fire?

Look at how spoilt Singaporean guys are. The most they've seen of blood or gore is perhaps in CS or some other FPS games. Do they even have any idea how putrid corpses smell? Do they know how crippling pain from bullet wounds can be? Can they overcome years of conditioning that killing is bad?

Huh. it's not as if those signallers never brought their own equipment along. If they'd tried to salvage and restore the communications grid using nothing but destroyed and damaged local equipment, then perhaps they'd deserve more respect.

How much more macsuline are Singapore's neighbours compared to Singapore's guys? Oh i don't know, garang enough to rob and steal? Garang enough to fight NSmen and win? Garang enough to defy authority?

a good laugh, your childishness displayed throughout your post and your inability to grasp the work of our signallers would probably spell to us that you havent went for your NS.

well, spoiled singapores whom cannot pull the trigger, whom cannot see blood. Then perhaps police officers firing off their revolver (happened many times in our history) to defend themselves, SOF personnels in the SQ117 incident, medical stuff, paramedics in our everyday lives are not Singaporeans then.

How much of the US forces deployed to war zones had seen battle, had taste the bitterness of killing and saw the tragic of losing their mates? How much of our neighbours had pulled a trigger, had killed a man or had lost a mate?

Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:

I think a simple blockade of resources should do the trick.

Cut off water etc.

 

we are self reliant in our water resources when needed. trying to block any resources from us that threatens our national survival will prompt a deadly response from the SAF.

Originally posted by 4Justice:

A simple reply shall suffice. Never underestimate your enemies, and complacency is the 1st step before downfall.

Well we  should never underestimate our enemies, we shall also not underestimate ourselves.

Originally posted by 4Justice:

Discussion here is about whether the amount of people who performed at Aceh is an accurate overall representation of our military verve

I think it is an accurate overall representation of our force because the people that was highlighted by you that holds indifferent attitudes were present in that deployment. Large amount of NSF from the army were deployed together with key navy personnels from each ships whom aint volunteers. The result was a phenomenon